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We're very delighted to have you here at Upskill Community this evening. I'm privileged to join my colleague and fellow Upskill Sylvia in conversation. This conversation that we're having this evening is going to pick up from a conversation we had earlier in the year On knowing our range and leveraging our range, whether within the organization, within learning institutions, and certainly within our community at large.

Michel Shah 0:30

Welcome to upSkill Talks. I'm your host, Michel Shah lead UpSkiller at UpSkill Community. UpSkill Talks is a podcast for leaders, leaders who are actively seeking innovative and creative ways to interact lead themselves and others. In every episode, through real life stories and enlightening conversations, we will explore the challenge. And opportunities real leaders face in today's everchanging workplace. We will present you with real strategies for you to leverage your soft skills and produce transformative results. Thank you for joining me on this journey. Let us begin.

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What exactly do we mean when we're talking about range? Because some of us who spend more time in self-awareness literature understand this a little bit better than others. So what's the synonym for range? I offer synonyms, like your full sort of scope of capability, your, your capabilities, all of them combined. Like all the things that you're able to do, all the things you could execute on, uh, sort of all of your knowledge, your skills, your experiences, all of that breadth and depth, up and down. East and west coming together, all that you bring to an environment when you are there. Whether that's, the ability to translate in different languages, to to access different languages. That's part of the range that may not be required in a job environment, but that's there. And so whether or not it's required for your work or not, it's part of your range. And if necessary, you could tap into it. Mm-hmm. Alright, so Sylvia, I wanna introduce Sylvia. Thank you everybody and welcome everyone to our OH app skill live sessions, uh, the sessions that they place every Thursday, I had shared a story about my resume being looked at by some professional resume builder and telling me that there was, um, no straight line in that resume. And, uh, What that led me to recognize was basically there is range. Yes. A straight line is not necessarily the way in which many people do things. So this is where sort of we began, and I was also offering the idea of what range is different meanings and different, uh, definitions of range that go not only from the social sciences, but also include some of the life sciences or biology as we, as we know it. And, and I do this just because it actually captures the way in which we move through careers, through opportunities and through different times. And places in organizations. So your range is basically the variation between upper and lower mid, uh, limits and particular scale. So if you take work, then you are thinking, okay, what are your skills? Have you grown? There's a certain, uh, do you have the education that matches that age, the age that you find yourself at? Do you have the experience that matches the age that you find yourself at? And that is a, a way of understanding the range without allowing for the diversity that happens to it. And I think what I love, what is happening behind Michelle's background is that there is a line. To upscale, but it's not a straight line. As you can see, it has a little curve because that's what happens in the range. You move from one place to the other and you learn a bunch of things as you move around. One of the things that we discussed last time is the range can be manifested as in the emotional, the knowledge, emotional intelligence, the self-awareness, the abilities, and the connection. But also when we were discussing this, we were talking about flying that range, and I say flying because it's simply necessary. Of course, recognizing the value of our range, in spite and contrary to the ways in which these things have been expected to happen, I think is is what is important. And we stopped at one point, not stopped, but I guess the discussion stopped when we were. Thinking, where do we show this range and what are the trade offs of showing our range? This is where we start. So Michelle, I think you had a bunch of questions for me regarding this, that some of them were left from the last time. Go ahead, please. Uh, Sylvia, thank you so much for that lovely summary. Last time we talked about range, in fact, when I saw that you were going to talk about range, this was not the first thing that came into my mind. I, I, and I wonder how many of our listeners, how many of our audience actually have other images conjured up in their mind when they think about range? I thought about things like. The range, the stove, you know, the, the range, the shooting range. I thought about mathematics, I thought about music, I thought about so many other things. Really never thought about the range that you were referring to, which is sort of our own knowledge, skills, awareness, experiences, and so on. So I'm really very happy to engage in this conversation. I loved your story, Sylvia, about your resume. I think, I think my resume would actually be similar to yours, that it's not a straight line. It shows that we've had varied, varied experiences and uh, that variation, uh, is not sort of usual. I had applied for a position one time, and when I spoke with the. Recruiter, it was almost as if everybody else who had applied for the position had started from being like an individual contributor and then became a manager and then became a director and was moving to the next level. So sort of there was a straight line in terms of all of what the candidates looked like. And my profile had me, you know, coming from one industry to the other, from one s, you know, one department to the other. And so I think, I think it's really important to talk about our range, not only sort of the breadth of our range, but the depth of our range. And I hope that we'll get into that conversation today because some of us think about range in terms of its breath. But I also am very interested and intrigued to see well, how our conversation will take us to exploring the depth. As well. So that's sort of the north south of this range because I do believe that there are people who may have similar skills and competences, but have a deeper sense of that in terms of what that range looks like. So those are things we wanna talk about. I loved your story very much, and I wondered with a resume like that, how do you effectively convey the relevance of your range for any particular role? Have you had struggles doing that? Well, funny that you say this. Well, I guess, and that brings us to this slide, that it was just one way of encapsulating what I, what I would like to contribute to this. It's like our range, it's the acquisition of knowledge experiences. And breadth and depth, as we said, right? Mm-hmm. And this follow patterns. And none of these patterns are mutually exclusive. So if I have to present myself, I would always stand, perhaps in contrast to someone who's goal-oriented, who has a structured pattern, who knew what they wanted to do, and they competed to get to that point. Climbing the ladder as it is suspected, the tasks were very clear. The process to achieve the goals were very clear. Does that mean that I don't have clear goals? No. But my approach is much different. My approach is relational. My approach is about building skills in the places where I find myself and taking those transferable skills elsewhere to build even more. And I build this through connection with the people, cuz the. The working and doing the work. Personally for me, it's about connecting to the humans I'm working with. That is the thing that I want the most to do. I connect and I strive my my best to connect with students and understanding that we can only learn new things if we are emotionally invested in this. And connection is where the emotional investment takes place. And at the same time, hands-on experience also allows you to get this, inform, this, this range, and only if I have to talk to people, I initially go. And of course I have to tailor like resume, like we all do in order to match the skills that are sought after, however, then comes the game and it is a game. And we are going to be discussing this when and how we can actually start showing these skills, the range that you have and when it's appropriate, and what are the consequences that may come from this. And I remember when you talked about when and where do we show it. I think it was Diana and um, Althea perhaps that discussed last time about different people are more privileged to show their range than others. Some people can go ahead and show their range. They can take that risk. Some people are not so sure they wanna take that risk to show their range in in different environments. My my perception is that first, this is really a self-awareness exercise that you've got to know yourself. But before that, you also have to know the environment that you're in. And in a way you almost have to know sort of your range and the environmental range. Like there and then be able to make the decision to match your range, to match the appropriate exposure of your range based on the environment that you're in. And maybe being methodical about a little bit at a time to test and see does this environment receive well? My range is, is this sort of the right environment? Is it fertile for me opening up fully my range or should I hold back a little bit? Because I have been in an environment where exposing too much of your range has not been a positive thing. Yeah. And so that is really something it's, there is a delicate balance with having this range particularly range outside of the scope of what is required for your function. There are some organizations where that is all you are sort of, that's all you should really. Expose or that's all this sort of allowable or tolerable within that context. And if you go beyond that, you're sort of out of your lane, if you will. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's one kind of environment. There are other environments where the broader and deeper your range, the more there is for you, more opportunities, more chances to, to explore and learn and, and, um, be more. And so I think balancing, sort of knowing your own range with knowing the, the organizationals, um, willingness to, to engage with your range is really, really crucial for you to decide how much of your range you wanna expose there. Right, right. Because there are the trade offs, the trade offs, as like you said, we, we can't ignore social identity. Mm-hmm. Our social identity is a big determining factor that allows or disallow. Showing range. Mm-hmm. And sometimes opportunity, you know, hence the hands-on active engagement to actually either gain or demonstrate your, your range. Uh, I, I can think of one example. One time we were bringing, well, facilitators, group facilitators from across the world. Two of them were for the first time in their lives on an airplane. Mm-hmm. And they needed to come from their different countries to Barcelona. Along the way, the person coming from Bangladesh got stuck in Turkey because while the flight was allowing them to come to to Barcelona, the visa was not completely processed. And for some reason, this was overlooked. The person found herself alone in a country in which he couldn't speak the language. And she couldn't do anything, so I needed to intervene. There comes the range. My job was just to bring them together and to prepare the agenda. That was it. Um, I called the airport. I called the airport and I had her page in her mother tongue. But before that, I had created a recording that I could transfer to the person in Turkey to transfer and then find her. Once I found her, they located her, we were able to speak, and then we arranged everything for her to get her visa and find herself in Barcelona. This was not part of my scope. This was not part of my job. We had a, a travel agent who was supposed to deal with these things. This is a big organization I used to work with, but I couldn't wait for that person for the process to take place. I, I needed to act and react and that was, there were praise out. Uh, As a result of this, but more than the praises, I was really happy to see a young person who was, for the first time flying across the world feeling safe and protected because that was our responsibility. And you were able to step out of what, out of your lane, if you will, to hopefully stepping out of my lane Yeah. In a, in a unionized environment. And to jump into, to save, to save that situation. And it's sort of like that's, that probably was a time when stepping out of your range was okay. Yeah. And the question is, when should you tap into it? Should you make the organization aware that you have this range? How will it benefit you? Or how, how will it harm you? And, and I wanna go to one of the points you made earlier, Sylvia, when you talked about identity. You said something that, um, some things, some elements of your range may not be allowed or maybe disallowed based on your identity. I would like to add, To that as well. That with certain identities, there is a possibility that you may need even more range than the average person in order to be even considered. So that's another component of, you know, how the environment, you understanding yourself, understanding the environment plays to your decision making when it comes to how much of your range to expose. See, Diana is asking, uh, like sometimes we may not be aware of our own capabilities, and that is very, very true. That is true. And that is, um, the work of the Jahari window in self-awareness. This is a key tool used to talk about areas that you know about yourself, the open arena, what is known to you and known to others, that everybody knows this about you. There are things that you know about yourself that you do not disclose to others. You're hidden. Um, you're hidden. Um, window, if you will. And then there are things that others know about you that you don't know about yourselves, that's that's referred to as your blind spot. And then there is this other un unknown area, undiscovered area where others don't know and you don't know. And that's the area where. Opportunities for interaction for new projects, for challenging assignments, for stepping out of your lane exposes a broader range at deeper range. This is a really well taken point that we don't come to any situation knowing our full range. It is through engagement and through conversations and through feedback mechanisms and through practice and through stepping out of our comfort zone that we begin to learn more about our range. Our range is just another element of self-awareness, which requires the same process for us to become clear on. It's us reflecting on our range. That's the internal pieces that we can do on our own, and then getting the feedback and interaction from others to help to inform what we think we know about ourselves. So that. Based on what we know and what others share together, we can pull that together to have a better understanding, a clearer understanding of what our actual range is. Sylvia, you know that there's some people who think they have a broader or deeper range than they actually do, and so you know, there are other people who have to provide them the feedback to say, actually, yeah, not really. Let's dial that back a little bit. This is probably not an area you wanna get into. This is something you don't actually do very well. Or there are other people who have a broader range but don't have the confidence and you have to pull them out and say, Hey, C, you were very good at this. Come on out. You can do this. And so that interaction and ongoing, um, engagement with others is how we become very clear of our range. We don't show up. On any day, in any situation with that clarity, we gain clarity, if you will, as they say, by rubbing up against others, by making sure that we are sharpening our edges, getting feedback, having others hold up a mirror to us and if, if we are humbling us to receive that information. Mm-hmm. And take it on board because you can't just share information with, not everyone can receive the feedback and interpret it appropriately and integrate it effectively to become more aware of what the real range is. Your thoughts, Sylvia? Yes. Now you, you have said it perfectly and of course I, I see some questions on the chat asking about the range. And the range is basically, All the things that you know, all the things that you come with, that you bring, that you have acquired. And it comes to knowledge and it comes to skills, it comes to self-awareness, abilities, and also your connection. But I think we're going to be going deeper into this conversation about the range. And Michelle, you said it right? Uh, some things we know for sure about ourselves and we know our strengths. And of course because we live in a deficit society where we're looking for what is missing of everybody else and ourselves, and we are the toughest of critics, we often come hard on ourselves, oh, I'm not good enough about this. And we know other people would, as you mentioned, a narrow range flying higher because of perhaps social identity, because of taking opportunities. All these things. And I agree via, I think the. The, the range of the description as described right now is quite imprecise and is quite, um, it requires much more work in terms of getting down to what precisely this would be. And it's a done on purpose because range is about movement. You cannot restrict movement. It's about what happens within different, uh, bars and limits that you have. It could be this around knowledge. How much, how self-aware are you there, is there is your range? How much knowledge do you have around a given subject? There is your range. How connected are you? What kind of a leader are you? There is your range. How do you lead in with other people? There is your range. So it's, it's. About, as Michelle said, do we drive on our lane on a straight line because we want to get from point A to point B, or do we take the the roundabout and learn a few things along the way? What is it that we're going to do? Yes. And a very imprecise concept that I just grabbed it because it's the best way of describing what that person couldn't find in my resume. And, and Sylvia, one of the things that I think is really important, I like the idea of this, um, this concept of being imprecise goes beyond the individual being, uh, the definition being imprecise or us being imprecise about our range. I think we can also take that to the organization. If you think about the average organization that creates, let's say, a role and a job description or a role description, that's actually very imprecise as well. Most of those, there's no way to accurately. Highlight or sort of delineate every single thing that you need someone to come with. And so many of these roles are putting in sort of, those are the minimum, minimum requirements, the minimum range that you need in this role. But you have to come to be able to perform in that role at a higher level. You have to come with broader range and more depth than is highlighted on the document. And a lot of these job descriptions set people up for failure because they come in and thinking that what they see is the optimal, uh, requirement when it is in many cases the minimum requirement. And so even sometimes the role description or the job descriptions are not precise enough in terms of the full range that someone needs to bring. The other thing is that the range that we need on the day when that job description is, is written or etched in stone, is very different. Two weeks from there. So the range is changing and sometimes the range of the role is shifting very far away from where it is. And we have to therefore make sure that the range that we bring is consistently being strengthened, so that as the responsibility shifts away from what was written on paper, we can also deliver and deliver at very high levels. Have you seen these situations, Sylvia Aware the role description there you all right there? You got it. You're right there. Yes. Yeah. So this is a person, a new project manager. Mm-hmm. In a construction company, and the description is project manager. And her expertise, of course extends beyond project management skills. Mm-hmm. Comprehensive knowledge to include comprehensive knowledge of architectural design, structural engineering, construction techniques, and of course the soft skills, which is one of the things that we are working with here, which is ability to understand and communicate effectively with various stakeholders, including the people that she works with, and ensuring smooth and successful project delivery. So it's not just managing the project, it's managing the ancillary processes that happen when you are managing a project. Yes. You, you're correct. It's, it's a job description that is imprecise and who could fit this, who could have the range of knowledge and experience to match this. Mm-hmm. And then we have the, but. To add to this, and Sylvia, even before you get to the, but as I'm reading this and thinking about the range and thinking about, um, a training I did earlier today on conflict resolution, looking at this, what Sarah has to interact with as well when we are talking about communicating effectively with various stakeholders is understand the range of communication skills and challenges that these stakeholders bring. Assuming that someone there is really struggled with effective conflict resolution with proper communication, with, yeah, taking feedback with being responsive, that expands the range. That she requires as we change people on her stakeholder, um, in her, in her stakeholder portfolio. Yep. And so nothing is static. So this looks so very simple on paper in terms of yes, you need to effectively communicate with stakeholders, including architects, engineers, contractors. And that seems quite simple, except when Sarah actually shows up and meets the individuals with the variation in abilities to communicate or willingness to collaborate. When she has to deal with all of that, it really tests our range. That's when you put the range to the test, and that's where she really is going to need more than this document illustrates. But that's right. And this is where the butt is. So this is where we go into our discussion. Okay? Yes. Okay. So, oh, it's. Althea has a question says, are you able to discuss the connection between inclusive leadership, the topic that we've been discussing and range? This idea of range includes the concept of scope, which is needed to be an inclusive leader. The well-rounded, self-aware, diverse, empathetic, compassionate leader seems to be captured by these concepts. You know, Althea, um, yes. Range. When we talk about range, particularly if you're in leadership, our range is being tested in leadership right now because you never know the, the context is changing so rapidly. Just as we saw in this case study, Sarah's ability to communicate effectively with all of these, um, stakeholders, architects, engineers, and contractors, the, the document does not say that these architect di um, engineers and contractors. Have this level of diversity that Sarah needs to deal with and require, um, this level of inclusive leadership. It doesn't tell us that you're dealing with a high level of diversity and will need a high level of inclusivity in the ways in which you lead. And so does Sarah have the scope? If we change out the architects and make them an international team, if we change out the engineers and change their language, if we change out the contractors and change their cultures, does Sarah still have the depth or we assuming that all of these engineers, contractors and architects are homogenous. One culture, one language, you know, similar educational background. Then it doesn't test her range as much. The the test comes when we diversify in so many different ways. As Sylvia talked about with language, when we look at culture, when we look at backgrounds, when we look at all of these other things, and we haven't even gotten around to looking at people who fit within the equity deserving groups within the Canadian environment. So when you take that on, it's going to test your range because what seems like a simple sentence, effectively communicating with stakeholders becomes a very complex undertaking, even for the most skilled leader. And right now our leadership is being tested. Our range is being tested and it's tested not from. One place is tested every time someone new shows up on your team with new identities, new attitudes, new cultures, new backgrounds, new languages, new entitlements. Every time someone shows up on your team, you are being tested, your range is being tested, and so you've gotta go super deep. And so, yes, Althea inclusive leadership, you are gonna need a range in that as long as you're sort of anywhere in the world, because we are dealing with a broader and broader and deeper and deeper slew of diversity. Sylvia, did you wanna add anything in terms of what Althea asked about? How do we provide for this well-rounded leader with this kind of range to deal with the kinds of diversity, the level of diversity and intensity of diversity in our workplace today? Yeah. Even before diversity became a, uh, you know, the, the ice cream of the month, the flavor of the month. I think the challenge was there for all leaders and part of what we see in the, the history that we are facing right now, and they need to make things change. Right now, it's actually proof of leadership that has been limited in range, that, that, that inability to actually embrace the different demands and the different needs of different groups that come together under one organization, under one institution. And I, I want to even invite us to think that diversity be this cultural, uh, gender, social or what have you. It's just one layer. I think within, I'm homogeneous. Quote unquote societies, you still need the range because as humans we are different. We are diverse. And then to that, you add a cultural origin to that. You add the differential identities and the differential acquisition and entitlements that we feel in society to that you add all the historical marginalization, of course you need range. Of course you need that ability. Ahea, you put it perfectly, a well-rounded individual or person or institution that is self-aware, diverse, empathetic, compassionate as a leader. But it's also someone that allows for connection to happen, right? Because unless they understand their range and understand and welcome the range of others and make room for these forces, for these gifts to work together. It is, we will be faced with this, uh, repeat of the same history that we have been facing for a long, long time. Well, let's hope not because, you know, we have been making great progress over time. And, you know, you talk about, um, diversity, the level of diversity even within or, um, societies, groups that seem homogenous. Yeah. And that's within any group, any single group. And so when, when we take, we think about diversity as a whole, we are thinking about big groups and we are minimizing the complexity. So within the white population, for instance, there is. A lot of different approaches, a lot of different mindsets, a lot of different religions, a lot of different cultural groups within that one. Um, one racial group within Yeah, absolutely. Every, the, the, every other racial group, if you think about Asian groups, but yet when we talk about it, we literally say, if you think about indigenous culture, there are so many different languages and cultures within mm-hmm. That one umbrella that we call indigenous culture. So indigenous cultures, right? Yeah. And so I think it's so important to understand that we always have been dealing with diversity. Diversity is not a new concept. Diversity is getting more emphasis because we are recognizing the danger of not giving it more emphasis. And, and yet we yet, and yet 25% decrease in all job postings just in the last month. 25% decrease for the past year of postings that have anything to do with diversity, inclusion, belonging lately, it ha is, is the box has been ticked and we're moving on. Well, you know, that's, that, that may be true for some organizations, Sylvia, that the box has been ticked. That's performative nature. That is true for a lot of organizations. Mm-hmm. Also wanna give credit to the organizations that have done some hiring and are seriously on the ground floor, rolling up their sleeves and really getting into doing some sub substantive work, which may be manifested in the outcomes yet. But there are some organizations taking those real steps, really doing some, some sub, um, some substantive work. And I'm hoping that we have more of those organizations than organizations who are doing that performative work. The bottom line is we have no choice what diversity means as a mother. It means recognizing the needs of all of my children individually. Mm-hmm. I am an aunt who has a wide range of nieces and nephews semi. Steal from other people. Some belong to me. Understanding their needs individually, respecting them and honoring them. Coming into the workplace, it's about not looking at someone and assuming that you, Sylvia, Althea, Diana, Elithia, and Maria, you are all sort of upskill her so you, you're all the same. It's really about understanding that Maria has some very specific needs and wants a particular type of interaction, communication leadership, and has specific goals and outcomes that she desires. That's the crux of this. And how do we then lead the individual being fair, making sure that Maria is getting what she needs in the same way that I ensure that Althea is getting what she needs. And so there are a lot of elements, a lot of steps, a lot of pieces of the puzzle to get to that place. But diversity is not new. The concept of meeting people where they're at is not new. Moving forward to have better equity for certain groups is not new. We are making progress in that way and I'm really ensure, you know, really hoping that organizations are doing the substantive work and realize that this is not going to go anywhere. So let's not waste time on performative measures. Let's really work on doing the substantive things that may take a little bit longer, but we will achieve real change with that kind of work and effort.

Michel Shah 36:36

Thank you for listening to this episode of UpSkill Talks. We bring you new episodes every Monday. Please take a moment to subscribe, leave a five star rating and a written review at apple podcast. Or follow us on. By Google podcast or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts, don't forget to share UpSkill talks with other leaders like yourself. So they too may gain the skills and insights to produce amazing results. Please go to UpSkillCommunity.com to review show notes and learn how you can join a community of leaders from across the globe. Collaborating to lead in a more meaningful and impactful way. I'm your host, Michel Shah. And again, thank you for joining me on this episode of UpSkill Talks.